Discussion:
Is this an NP complete problem?
(too old to reply)
f***@yahoo.com.cn
2003-12-13 01:52:58 UTC
Permalink
Dear Sir/Madam,


Given an undirected graph, every edge in it will be in a specific
color. For example, there are 4 lines in the graph. Two lines are red.
One line is yellow. Another line is blue. Then there are totally 3
kinds of colors in this graph. I further assume there are n cut sets
in the graph. In one cut set, the lines are either red or yellow. So
there are 2 kinds of color in this cut set.

With the definition stated above, my objective is to find a cut set
that contains the least kinds of colors. I am wondering if this
problem is an NP complete problem.

Thanks a lot for your attention and look forward to your advice!

Best regards,
Helen
Bruce Harvey
2003-12-13 10:44:41 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

For a peasant like me, this is undefined. All I can imagine an undirected
graph to be is a piece of squared paper with two axes and a line floaing
throught the air.

But more seriously, are you talking about a four sided figure (curved lines
allowed)

No because then it would be possible to make a straight cut through 3 or
even four lines.

Or you could be talking about 4 parallel lines.


Please, the art of maths is to write it so that those of all specialisatons
can understand it, otherwise for all we know, you may be two memebers of a
mutual admiration society talking gibberish so you will appear cleaver.


Adding

Formal Definition: A graph G is a pair (V,E), where V is a set of vertexes,
and E is a set of edges between the vertexes E = {{u,v} | u, v V}. If the
graph does not allow self-loops, adjacency is irreflexive, that is E =
{{u,v} | u, v V u v}.

and saying a cut partitions the set of vertices would help tose who have not
been to the lectures.



We must all be aware that new maths is being created far faster than any one
person can read it and that maths degree sylibi contain only a very small
subset of all that is maths.
--
regards Bruce

Bruce Harvey
***@bearsoft.co.uk
The Alternative Physics Site
http://users.powernet.co.uk/bearsoft
Post by f***@yahoo.com.cn
Dear Sir/Madam,
Given an undirected graph, every edge in it will be in a specific
color. For example, there are 4 lines in the graph. Two lines are red.
One line is yellow. Another line is blue. Then there are totally 3
kinds of colors in this graph. I further assume there are n cut sets
in the graph. In one cut set, the lines are either red or yellow. So
there are 2 kinds of color in this cut set.
With the definition stated above, my objective is to find a cut set
that contains the least kinds of colors. I am wondering if this
problem is an NP complete problem.
Thanks a lot for your attention and look forward to your advice!
Best regards,
Helen
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end
Joe "Nuke Me Xemu" Foster
2003-12-13 20:07:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bruce Harvey
For a peasant like me, this is undefined. All I can imagine an undirected
graph to be is a piece of squared paper with two axes and a line floaing
throught the air.
URL:http://mathworld.wolfram.com/UndirectedGraph.html

URL:http://mathworld.wolfram.com/CutSet.html

URL:http://mathworld.wolfram.com/EdgeColoring.html

--
Joe Foster <mailto:jlfoster%40znet.com> DC8s in Spaace: <http://www.xenu.net/>
WARNING: I cannot be held responsible for the above They're coming to
because my cats have apparently learned to type. take me away, ha ha!
f***@yahoo.com.cn
2003-12-18 02:15:39 UTC
Permalink
Dear Sir/Madam,

I truely feel shame when I read your reply. I am very grateful to it.
Thanks for your words.

Best regards,
Helen
Post by Bruce Harvey
Hi,
For a peasant like me, this is undefined. All I can imagine an undirected
graph to be is a piece of squared paper with two axes and a line floaing
throught the air.
But more seriously, are you talking about a four sided figure (curved lines
allowed)
No because then it would be possible to make a straight cut through 3 or
even four lines.
Or you could be talking about 4 parallel lines.
Please, the art of maths is to write it so that those of all specialisatons
can understand it, otherwise for all we know, you may be two memebers of a
mutual admiration society talking gibberish so you will appear cleaver.
Adding
Formal Definition: A graph G is a pair (V,E), where V is a set of vertexes,
and E is a set of edges between the vertexes E = {{u,v} | u, v V}. If the
graph does not allow self-loops, adjacency is irreflexive, that is E =
{{u,v} | u, v V u v}.
and saying a cut partitions the set of vertices would help tose who have not
been to the lectures.
We must all be aware that new maths is being created far faster than any one
person can read it and that maths degree sylibi contain only a very small
subset of all that is maths.
--
regards Bruce
Bruce Harvey
The Alternative Physics Site
http://users.powernet.co.uk/bearsoft
Post by f***@yahoo.com.cn
Dear Sir/Madam,
Given an undirected graph, every edge in it will be in a specific
color. For example, there are 4 lines in the graph. Two lines are red.
One line is yellow. Another line is blue. Then there are totally 3
kinds of colors in this graph. I further assume there are n cut sets
in the graph. In one cut set, the lines are either red or yellow. So
there are 2 kinds of color in this cut set.
With the definition stated above, my objective is to find a cut set
that contains the least kinds of colors. I am wondering if this
problem is an NP complete problem.
Thanks a lot for your attention and look forward to your advice!
Best regards,
Helen
begin 666 member.gif
M1TE&.#=A"0`+`( ``````/___RP`````"0`+```"#XR/J<" OI1I[4!Y5Y4<
#%0`[
`
end
begin 666 wedge.gif
(X)'J'>L*`#L`
`
end
begin 666 neq.gif
`
end
Richard J Kinch
2003-12-13 21:37:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@yahoo.com.cn
Thanks a lot for your attention and look forward to your advice
Students are supposed to do homework assignments themselves.
Gernot Hoffmann
2003-12-14 18:38:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard J Kinch
Post by f***@yahoo.com.cn
Thanks a lot for your attention and look forward to your advice
Students are supposed to do homework assignments themselves.
Polite question, harsh answer. Fortunately many contributors
in this forum are not as rude.
Students asking about their homework are welcome, IMO.

Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann
Just d' FAQs
2003-12-14 23:07:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gernot Hoffmann
Post by Richard J Kinch
Students are supposed to do homework assignments themselves.
Polite question, harsh answer. Fortunately many contributors
in this forum are not as rude.
Students asking about their homework are welcome, IMO.
Perhaps you did not notice that the post was a second offense. It was
cross-posted to four other groups, and about graph algorithms, not
graphics algorithms (with no attempt to tie it to graphics). And last
time it happened the poster was advised not to do so. As for asking
about homework, I reserve the right to be extremely harsh when asked
to do someone's homework for them. Which is not the same as helping to
find an answer when a student is completely bewildered and has made an
effort -- and when the question is about computer graphics algorithms.
It is not in the student's best interest and undermines morale for the
rest of the class if they are given free answers here. It's not polite
to abuse netiquette as this poster as now done twice, it's quite rude.
Were it to happen again it would move from rude to spam, and invite a
berth in a kill filter along with a complaint to the ISP.

Kinch's post is direct, correct, on target, and not terribly harsh.
The OP's return address is listed as Yahoo China. Perhaps there is a
cultural barrier?

Were this one of my students I would hope they would be given gentle
but appropriate guidance to help them learn. Say, talk to your fellow
students, to your teaching assistants, to your professor. Read this
book, these papers, or those web sites. But certainly do not ask for
inappropriate help in an off-topic newsgroup, nor in FIVE groups at
once, and especially not repeatedly. IMHO
Dave Eberly
2003-12-15 00:38:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Just d' FAQs
Perhaps you did not notice that the post was a second offense. It was
cross-posted to four other groups, and about graph algorithms, not
graphics algorithms (with no attempt to tie it to graphics). And last
time it happened the poster was advised not to do so. As for asking
about homework, I reserve the right to be extremely harsh when asked
to do someone's homework for them.
1. Stating this is a homework question is speculation. You do not
know for certain.

2. Stating this has no connection to graphics is speculation. You do not
know for certain. Maybe it does. For example, the document at my
web site indicates that Boolean operations on polysolids has ties to
graph coloring.

3. I will venture to say that some of us who frequent this newsgroup
do not feel obligated to follow The Rules of Academia. Those
Rules are generally artificial and not how industry works.
Post by Just d' FAQs
Kinch's post is direct, correct, on target, and not terribly harsh.
"correct"? More speculation.
Post by Just d' FAQs
Were this one of my students I would hope they would be given gentle
but appropriate guidance to help them learn. Say, talk to your fellow
students, to your teaching assistants, to your professor. Read this
book, these papers, or those web sites. But certainly do not ask for
inappropriate help in an off-topic newsgroup, nor in FIVE groups at
once, and especially not repeatedly. IMHO
"inappropriate help" is your judgment that is not universal. IMHO

--
Dave Eberly
***@magic-software.com
http://www.magic-software.com
http://www.wild-magic.com
David Eppstein
2003-12-15 00:55:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Eberly
1. Stating this is a homework question is speculation. You do not
know for certain.
I have to add that I skipped a key line of the original post (the part
saying that there is a set of n cuts to be considered) and thought it
was asking more generally for the cut using the fewest colors in an
arbitrary edge-colored graph. In that form, I don't know how to solve
it, and it seems an interesting question that's too hard for homework.
But maybe I'm missing something simple...
--
David Eppstein http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/
Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science
Just d' FAQs
2003-12-15 11:53:09 UTC
Permalink
In response to the first post, I tried to offer guidance to an unknown
source about a breach of netiquette. That seemed to me a helpful thing
to do, with no assumptions about the poster. After a repeat of the
first post with further details, but none relating it to graphics,
Kinch posted a terse rebuff that seemed to assume this was a homework
question. I decided it would be better simply to remain silent. But
when Hoffmann said "Students asking about their homework are welcome,
IMO", I felt strongly that I should make clear my own position on
*that* topic. I'm uncomfortable claiming OP is asking us to help with
a homework question, and GH is welcome to speak for himself about his
personal attitude about offering such help. But, especially in light
of Kinch's take on the posts, I believe it may help OP to read, say,

<http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html>

Responding in more detail, just to make sure the dead horse is flogged
enough:

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:38:04 GMT, "Dave Eberly"
Post by Dave Eberly
Post by Just d' FAQs
Perhaps you did not notice that the post was a second offense. It was
cross-posted to four other groups, and about graph algorithms, not
graphics algorithms (with no attempt to tie it to graphics). And last
time it happened the poster was advised not to do so. As for asking
about homework, I reserve the right to be extremely harsh when asked
to do someone's homework for them.
1. Stating this is a homework question is speculation. You do not
know for certain.
Agreed. And in my direct response to OP earlier in this thread I made
no such assumption. Which does not change my distaste for laziness and
cheating when it occurs. Always a judgement call here, and a perilous
one at that.
Post by Dave Eberly
2. Stating this has no connection to graphics is speculation. You do not
know for certain. Maybe it does. For example, the document at my
web site indicates that Boolean operations on polysolids has ties to
graph coloring.
Indeed, maybe it does; but as I said in parentheses, there was no
attempt to tie it to graphics, and the message was cross-posted to
comp.ai, comp.theory, sci.math, and sci.op-research as well. Bad idea.
Post by Dave Eberly
3. I will venture to say that some of us who frequent this newsgroup
do not feel obligated to follow The Rules of Academia. Those
Rules are generally artificial and not how industry works.
My concern was not "The Rules of Academia" but rather the realities of
learning and working with others in the real world. It may be true
that ethics and industry are strange bedfellows, but I see no reason
to encourage poor behavior.
Post by Dave Eberly
Post by Just d' FAQs
Kinch's post is direct, correct, on target, and not terribly harsh.
"correct"? More speculation.
In my experience students *are* "supposed to do homework assignments
themselves", unless explicitly told otherwise; and even then they must
not pass others' work off as their own. In the real world that can get
someone fired.
Post by Dave Eberly
Post by Just d' FAQs
Were this one of my students I would hope they would be given gentle
but appropriate guidance to help them learn. Say, talk to your fellow
students, to your teaching assistants, to your professor. Read this
book, these papers, or those web sites. But certainly do not ask for
inappropriate help in an off-topic newsgroup, nor in FIVE groups at
once, and especially not repeatedly. IMHO
"inappropriate help" is your judgment that is not universal. IMHO
We have yet to see any effort by OP to show it is appropriate. Perhaps
a challenging computer graphics problem in the real world produced the
question. If so, it would help (in multiple ways) to hear about it.
Gernot Hoffmann
2003-12-15 19:47:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Just d' FAQs
In response to the first post, I tried to offer guidance to an unknown
source about a breach of netiquette. That seemed to me a helpful thing
to do, with no assumptions about the poster. After a repeat of the
first post with further details, but none relating it to graphics,
Kinch posted a terse rebuff that seemed to assume this was a homework
question. ....
In my Google posts I found just ONE letter by the OP:

"Hi,
Could you give me some suggestions on this problem? Thanks for your
time and attention first.
The problem I am thinking is as follows:
Given an undirected graph. Every edge in this graph will be in a
specific color. Now I want to find a subset of edges that contains the
least kinds of colors.
Is it an NP complete problem?
Finally thanks a lot for your time and attention once again.
Best regards,
Helen"

And then - after seven further contributions by others - this
short statement (not the least based on any evidence):

"Students are supposed to do homework assignments themselves."

Nobody can tell me that this is an adequate reply. It means
flapping the OP in the face, by European, Asian and African
standards, maybe different in the States.

A violation of "netiquettes" can be critisized if done on purpose.
The OP´s mistake was posting in several forums. The letter itself
was very polite.

Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann
Just d' FAQs
2003-12-16 03:17:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gernot Hoffmann
"Hi,
Could you give me some suggestions on this problem? Thanks for your
time and attention first.
Given an undirected graph. Every edge in this graph will be in a
specific color. Now I want to find a subset of edges that contains the
least kinds of colors.
Is it an NP complete problem?
Finally thanks a lot for your time and attention once again.
Best regards,
Helen"
And then - after seven further contributions by others - this
"Students are supposed to do homework assignments themselves."
Ah! That may help clear up the difference in folks' responses. I see a
second post (but not in Google) dated "Sat, 13 Dec 2003 01:52:58 GMT":

----------
Dear Sir/Madam,


Given an undirected graph, every edge in it will be in a specific
color. For example, there are 4 lines in the graph. Two lines are red.
One line is yellow. Another line is blue. Then there are totally 3
kinds of colors in this graph. I further assume there are n cut sets
in the graph. In one cut set, the lines are either red or yellow. So
there are 2 kinds of color in this cut set.

With the definition stated above, my objective is to find a cut set
that contains the least kinds of colors. I am wondering if this
problem is an NP complete problem.

Thanks a lot for your attention and look forward to your advice!

Best regards,
Helen
----------

I propose that we withhold further comment while we wait for OP to
post to just this newsgroup, preferably with an indication of the
computer graphics task that spawned the question. Meanwhile we can
indulge ourselves in a little holiday cheer and celebrate with the
people of Iraq.
f***@yahoo.com.cn
2003-12-18 03:04:09 UTC
Permalink
Dear Sir/Madam,

I am sorry for making such an "offense" in many of your eyes. I posted
the question again just after I read a reply that told me I had not
made the question clear. Belive it or not, I did not read any other
replies at that moment. Maybe I had made a mistake and did not notice
there were some other replies that asked me not to post the message to
many groups.

If I had noticed it, I would not do it again. I think even for a rude
person, he at least can be grateful to the contributors of these
forums and will follow their words.

I did it since I did not notice the responses which asked me not to
post it on many forums( of course, I assumed that maybe some of you do
not trust in my words).

I am very sorry for it and hope those who trust in my words can
forgive my mistake. I will never make such kind of mistakes again.

To be honest, now my tears are running. Of course, I made a mistake
first, although without any bad intention. I agree with a
contributor's response, they are just like flapping on my face. Of
course, I know I should be responsible for this mistake.

Of course, I will try my best to follow all of your advice and for
those who trust in my words, I firstly would like to forward my deep
appreciation to you all. Secondly, if possible, I don't think further
replies on my attitute and speculation on my intention is needed.

Sorry for posting such a question and sorry for making some of you
annoied.

Best regards,
Helen
Dec. 16. 2003
Post by Just d' FAQs
Post by Gernot Hoffmann
"Hi,
Could you give me some suggestions on this problem? Thanks for your
time and attention first.
Given an undirected graph. Every edge in this graph will be in a
specific color. Now I want to find a subset of edges that contains the
least kinds of colors.
Is it an NP complete problem?
Finally thanks a lot for your time and attention once again.
Best regards,
Helen"
And then - after seven further contributions by others - this
"Students are supposed to do homework assignments themselves."
Ah! That may help clear up the difference in folks' responses. I see a
----------
Dear Sir/Madam,
Given an undirected graph, every edge in it will be in a specific
color. For example, there are 4 lines in the graph. Two lines are red.
One line is yellow. Another line is blue. Then there are totally 3
kinds of colors in this graph. I further assume there are n cut sets
in the graph. In one cut set, the lines are either red or yellow. So
there are 2 kinds of color in this cut set.
With the definition stated above, my objective is to find a cut set
that contains the least kinds of colors. I am wondering if this
problem is an NP complete problem.
Thanks a lot for your attention and look forward to your advice!
Best regards,
Helen
----------
I propose that we withhold further comment while we wait for OP to
post to just this newsgroup, preferably with an indication of the
computer graphics task that spawned the question. Meanwhile we can
indulge ourselves in a little holiday cheer and celebrate with the
people of Iraq.
Just d' FAQs
2003-12-18 17:15:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by f***@yahoo.com.cn
I am sorry for making such an "offense" in many of your eyes. I posted
the question again just after I read a reply that told me I had not
made the question clear. Belive it or not, I did not read any other
replies at that moment. Maybe I had made a mistake and did not notice
there were some other replies that asked me not to post the message to
many groups.
[snip]
To be honest, now my tears are running. Of course, I made a mistake
first, although without any bad intention. I agree with a
contributor's response, they are just like flapping on my face. Of
course, I know I should be responsible for this mistake.
Apology accepted.

To put this in perspective, what you did is an easy mistake, and only
a minor annoyance if corrected. When you parachute from an airplane a
single mistake can be fatal. We are all extremely fortunate newsgroups
are more forgiving. :) To quote the delightful Piet Hein:

| THE ROAD TO WISDOM
| The road to wisdom? - Well, it's plain
| and simple to express:
| Err
| and err
| and err again
| but less
| and less
| and less.

The people who post here are of all ages, all levels of education, all
countries. How can we not stumble? The important thing is that when we
do we pick ourselves up as gracefully as possible, shake off the dust,
and proceed a little wiser.

I said in my first reply that we welcome your questions about computer
graphics (drawing pictures) algorithms, posted here alone. That is
still true.
p***@gmail.com
2014-05-31 21:58:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Just d' FAQs
In response to the first post, I tried to offer guidance to an unknown
source about a breach of netiquette. That seemed to me a helpful thing
to do, with no assumptions about the poster. After a repeat of the
first post with further details, but none relating it to graphics,
Kinch posted a terse rebuff that seemed to assume this was a homework
question. I decided it would be better simply to remain silent. But
when Hoffmann said "Students asking about their homework are welcome,
IMO", I felt strongly that I should make clear my own position on
*that* topic. I'm uncomfortable claiming OP is asking us to help with
a homework question, and GH is welcome to speak for himself about his
personal attitude about offering such help. But, especially in light
of Kinch's take on the posts, I believe it may help OP to read, say,
<http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html>
Responding in more detail, just to make sure the dead horse is flogged
On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 00:38:04 GMT, "Dave Eberly"
Post by Dave Eberly
Post by Just d' FAQs
Perhaps you did not notice that the post was a second offense. It was
cross-posted to four other groups, and about graph algorithms, not
graphics algorithms (with no attempt to tie it to graphics). And last
time it happened the poster was advised not to do so. As for asking
about homework, I reserve the right to be extremely harsh when asked
to do someone's homework for them.
1. Stating this is a homework question is speculation. You do not
know for certain.
Agreed. And in my direct response to OP earlier in this thread I made
no such assumption. Which does not change my distaste for laziness and
cheating when it occurs. Always a judgement call here, and a perilous
one at that.
Post by Dave Eberly
2. Stating this has no connection to graphics is speculation. You do not
know for certain. Maybe it does. For example, the document at my
web site indicates that Boolean operations on polysolids has ties to
graph coloring.
Indeed, maybe it does; but as I said in parentheses, there was no
attempt to tie it to graphics, and the message was cross-posted to
comp.ai, comp.theory, sci.math, and sci.op-research as well. Bad idea.
Post by Dave Eberly
3. I will venture to say that some of us who frequent this newsgroup
do not feel obligated to follow The Rules of Academia. Those
Rules are generally artificial and not how industry works.
My concern was not "The Rules of Academia" but rather the realities of
learning and working with others in the real world. It may be true
that ethics and industry are strange bedfellows, but I see no reason
to encourage poor behavior.
Post by Dave Eberly
Post by Just d' FAQs
Kinch's post is direct, correct, on target, and not terribly harsh.
"correct"? More speculation.
In my experience students *are* "supposed to do homework assignments
themselves", unless explicitly told otherwise; and even then they must
not pass others' work off as their own. In the real world that can get
someone fired.
Post by Dave Eberly
Post by Just d' FAQs
Were this one of my students I would hope they would be given gentle
but appropriate guidance to help them learn. Say, talk to your fellow
students, to your teaching assistants, to your professor. Read this
book, these papers, or those web sites. But certainly do not ask for
inappropriate help in an off-topic newsgroup, nor in FIVE groups at
once, and especially not repeatedly. IMHO
"inappropriate help" is your judgment that is not universal. IMHO
We have yet to see any effort by OP to show it is appropriate. Perhaps
a challenging computer graphics problem in the real world produced the
question. If so, it would help (in multiple ways) to hear about it.
No
Hans-Bernhard Bröker
2014-06-01 10:36:36 UTC
Permalink
[...]

Good thing you full-quoted the entire post you replied to. Because
frankly, everybody else had forgotten all about the details.
No
And it took you only 11 years to arrive at such a well-reasoned,
excellently formulated answer. Amazing. Not.

Richard J Kinch
2003-12-15 20:35:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Eberly
1. Stating this is a homework question is speculation. You do not
know for certain.
Correct. Unclear why your standard is certainty.
Post by Dave Eberly
2. [Another responder] Stating this has no connection to graphics is
speculation.
Correct again, but different kind of speculation. Many graphics
problems indeed involve graphs.
Post by Dave Eberly
3. I will venture to say that some of us who frequent this newsgroup
do not feel obligated to follow The Rules of Academia. Those
Rules are generally artificial and not how industry works.
My my, correct again. The only rules are those of the charter. But
that still prohibits "do my homework", or "do my thesis problem", or "do
my industrial R&D problem", or whatever this really started out as.

Wisdom must be reticent, or it is devoured by a world of foolishness.
Even Jesus spoke in parables, lest the masses be converted (Mark 4:11-
12). It is a matter of human nature, not academia vs industry.
Dave Eberly
2003-12-15 20:50:57 UTC
Permalink
--
Post by Richard J Kinch
Correct. Unclear why your standard is certainty.
Unclear why your standard is not. Perhaps you have great
powers of omniscience.
Post by Richard J Kinch
Correct again, but different kind of speculation. Many graphics
problems indeed involve graphs.
Something I pointed out in my post. Why are you repeating this?
Post by Richard J Kinch
My my, correct again. The only rules are those of the charter. But
that still prohibits "do my homework", or "do my thesis problem", or "do
my industrial R&D problem", or whatever this really started out as.
Here is one link to the FAQ for which item 0.01 is the charter
http://www.exaflop.org/docs/cgafaq/ind.html
Where do you see the statements that request no posts about
homework, thesis problems, or industrial R&D problems?
Post by Richard J Kinch
It is a matter of human nature, not academia vs industry.
When you told the person not to get help for a "homework
assignment", you made it an argument of "academia" versus
whatever.

If you do not like a poster's question for whatever reasons,
including you think it is a homework question, just don't
respond.

--
Dave Eberly
***@magic-software.com
http://www.magic-software.com
http://www.wild-magic.com
Kenneth Sloan
2003-12-15 22:27:20 UTC
Permalink
If you do not like a poster's answer for whatever reasons,
..., just don't respond.
--
Kenneth Sloan ***@uab.edu
Computer and Information Sciences (205) 934-2213
University of Alabama at Birmingham FAX (205) 934-5473
Birmingham, AL 35294-1170 http://www.cis.uab.edu/info/faculty/sloan/
Christer Ericson
2003-12-16 07:35:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kenneth Sloan
If you do not like a poster's answer for whatever reasons,
..., just don't respond.
That's really good advice; I bet someone smart said that
before you did.


Christer Ericson
Sony Computer Entertainment, Santa Monica
f***@yahoo.com.cn
2003-12-18 02:39:49 UTC
Permalink
Dear Sir/Madam,

I feel very shame when I read so many responses to my question. I am
really sorry for making this "offense". I don't mean to.

Sorry for it. I will read all of responses carefully again and try my
best to correct my way in learning and asking questions.

Finally, I am very grateful to your responses.

Wish you all happy in the coming Christmas!

Best regards,
Helen
Post by Christer Ericson
Post by Kenneth Sloan
If you do not like a poster's answer for whatever reasons,
..., just don't respond.
That's really good advice; I bet someone smart said that
before you did.
Christer Ericson
Sony Computer Entertainment, Santa Monica
Dmytry Lavrov
2003-12-16 10:10:41 UTC
Permalink
p.p.s
about homeworks: In comp.lang.pascal.* there's special "rules"(but
maybe i somehow misinterpreted 'em,it's not official, and my post does
not reflect view of comp.lang.pascal.* in any way ;-)

If it's homework and student haven't tried to solve,don't solve.
If it's homework and student have tried to solve but failed and
haven't done something,don't solve.("pay for solution" reply,as
industry world does)

If it's homework and student have solved the problem in other language
a\or wrote algorithm and asking how to translate that to pascal, we
all will help him and sometimes even will provide working source code.
Just because main is algorithm and he done that.He may not know dead
language Pascal if he don't want .

If it's homework and student writes that he are cool in other
language,ex.C,and he have to write stupid dead pascal code for
problem,but he haven't solved that problem even in other language he
like , we all will think that he can't find the algorithm(ugually very
simple algorithm) and have missed -very serious part of courses- and
it's hard to tell WHY he tries to go further.
Dmytry Lavrov
2003-12-16 10:00:21 UTC
Permalink
"Dave Eberly" <***@magic-software.com> wrote in message news:<R8pDb.6073$***@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
<cut>
Post by Dave Eberly
If you do not like a poster's question for whatever reasons,
including you think it is a homework question, just don't
respond.
Hey,i don't understand one word in original question: What's mean
"Is this an NP complete problem?"

Really,interesting,what?

Before that "do someone homework or not do someone homework" thread, i
was not sure if it's student question,it's looked for me(he _didn't_
asked for solution of that graphs) like question "can i GIVE it as
homework to my students " because i didn't understand subject and NP
looked like something about education ;-)))

Like when i'm getting any problem from book and first time truing to
solve it in unexpected way(zero graph,for example).


Regards,

Dmytry Lavrov.

"we have spinning ball(spin vertical) on the horisontal cylinder,will
point of contact of ball and cylinder start drawing spiral ;surely
will because "start drawing spiral" have "unexpected" meaning that
only infinitely small portion of path should be spiral ;-)"

from Littlewood book about math, but i restoring it from memory.It was
about test problems for students.
f***@yahoo.com.cn
2003-12-18 02:30:25 UTC
Permalink
Dear Sir/Madam,

I am very grateful to your kinds words.

Best regards,
Helen
Post by Gernot Hoffmann
Post by Richard J Kinch
Post by f***@yahoo.com.cn
Thanks a lot for your attention and look forward to your advice
Students are supposed to do homework assignments themselves.
Polite question, harsh answer. Fortunately many contributors
in this forum are not as rude.
Students asking about their homework are welcome, IMO.
Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann
n***@comcast.net
2003-12-18 14:25:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gernot Hoffmann
Post by Richard J Kinch
Post by f***@yahoo.com.cn
Thanks a lot for your attention and look forward to your advice
Students are supposed to do homework assignments themselves.
Polite question, harsh answer. Fortunately many contributors
in this forum are not as rude.
Students asking about their homework are welcome, IMO.
Fine, if that's the way you feel -- but if one of *my* students does
this and I find them here getting answers for homework, I'll fail
them. I have also sent notes to other algorithms/theory faculty I
know when it's obvious that it's one of their students trying to get
answers off the net. Most of them don't take very kindly to it.
--
That's News To Me!
***@comcast.net
f***@yahoo.com.cn
2003-12-18 02:31:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard J Kinch
Post by f***@yahoo.com.cn
Thanks a lot for your attention and look forward to your advice
Students are supposed to do homework assignments themselves.
Dear Sir/Madam,

Thanks for your words. I will try my best to follow it.

Best regards,
Helen
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